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More on Minarets

censorship poster With the comments about minarets spooling up I figured I ought to try to defend my position in a podcast. So I asked Roger Hardy, BBC's Islamic Affairs analyst, for an interview but he politely declined. Roger did, nevertheless, recommend Jytte Klausen, of Brandeis. The name was familiar — it's pretty unusual — so I checked and yes, indeed, a month or so after I'd started the EP podcast in 2006 I'd asked Jytte for an interview, but hadn't then managed to make it happen. Well, this was a good time to try again, and this time I succeeded. Jytte was very kind to talk with me just on the day she was off to London to present her latest book to a parliamentary group. So following the podcast of the 18th, and after I have my vacation, this will be the podcast when we pick up again on January 8th; all those who disagree with my views on minarets will be heartened to know that they have some expert support. The whole story, however, gets complicated.

Jytte's latest book, The Cartoons That Shook the World (Yale University Press, 2009), was published just a few weeks ago. It's about the crisis surrounding those Danish cartoons of Muhammad. But there's a twist. Just before the book was to be printed the President of Yale ordered the Press to remove reproductions of the cartoons and several other famous, historical illustrations of Muhammad. The press then added a statement of explanation on a front page with Jytte contributing below that a short statement of her own. The press offered to show Jytte a document upon which it had based its decision but only if she signed a confidentiality agreement, which she declined. She considers herself a victim of censorship and several civil liberties groups have taken up the case.

Here we find common ground for complaint though we generalize from it in different ways. It's an interesting conversation which I learned from greatly, and I hope you find it thought-provoking even if you don't ultimately agree with me.

Posted by George Kenney on December 3, 2009 8:41 AM

Comments

Really looking forward to the podcast.

In the meantime:

http://www.wsws.org/tools/index.php?page=print&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsws.org%2Farticles%2F2009%2Fdec2009%2Fswit-d03.shtml

Posted by: EJK | December 3, 2009 9:30 AM

I hope that we get to hear that Bud Hopkins interview this year.

[Yes. Pls. see the posted schedule. g.]

Posted by: douglas lain | December 4, 2009 11:25 AM

I've read your first article and you have an "interesting" angle of view, however it doesn't explain anything, at all.

While "manufacturing consent" brains, and CGM (Corp. Gov. Media) named the results of referendum as a "surprise", however, it is anything but it! Who carefully following events and politics in Europe won't be surprised. For those from area of ex Yugoslavia will know what I am writing about, and what are EU (along with US) gov. capable of. And they - Europe - always has been xenophobic and bigots.

For those who believe in virginity of Swiss nation and their "democracy" one very illustrative article.

http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2009-10-16-ruth-en.html

And after reading this:
http://www.marxist.com/major-strike-shakes-switzerland-bellinzona-railway-workers.htm

It is clear that governing class has hitted "soft spot" which is Muslim minority (majority is from ex Yugoslavia), of whom majority are not devoted or just lightly devoted to it's faith. So they blame them, not globalization and mismanagement of it's banking industry. Therefore they employed "groupthink" as a method for hemogenization of mass.

[Well, I'm very pleased to see you raise the point that many of the Muslims in Switzerland are from the former Yugoslavia. What you fail, however, to add is that many of them are Albanians — my guess would be 1/4-1/3 of Swiss Muslims are Albanians — and that fact, of course, is critically important because Albanian gangs are most likely the largest heroin trafficking organization in Europe. Also trafficking in guns and human trafficking. Their activities have not gone unnoticed by Swiss authorities or, I daresay, by ordinary Swiss. The irony is that these Albanians probably never would have found an open door in Switzerland in the first place if they hadn't showed up with armfuls of cash, but that's neither here nor there.

The Swiss have a parochial problem that they're dealing with sensibly on a case by case basis. I stand 100% behind my original contention that the Swiss are not a majority right-wing xenophobic group practicing the hateful persecution of minorities. Moreover, the problems the Swiss face are not limited to Switzerland. Other states, including the U.S., will increasingly have to deal with them.

I see no contradiction whatsoever, either, between being opposed on the one hand to western attacks on Muslim countries, the profoundly criminal Israeli treatment of the Palestinians, and so on, and on the other a defense of ecumenical values within Western states. g.]

Posted by: Balkanac | December 4, 2009 11:43 PM

Sir,
I agree with you, and I am aware of the fact that majority of the Muslims in Switzerland are Kosovo's Albanians. But, majority of them are low abiding citizens. If you happened to take taxi at Zürich airport, you will see that majority of them are cab drivers and the like "professions". Still, I believe Kosovo's mafia (active in US as well) hasn't been created from the thin air, just like KLA. Population of 2 millions cannot have powerful underground unless there is some "support".

I firmly believe that problem of ex Yugoslavia, which started on Kosovo are not creation of ordinary Kosovo's Albanians.

Please take the look at this:
http://www.mediatenor.com/charts.php

What possibly outcome of the referendum could have been?

and this:
http://warincontext.org/2009/11/29/the-european-minaret-missile-threat/

Pay attention at the part with Tariq Ramadan's interview.

I am not saying that Swiss are different form: French, or German, Austrian etc. Mindset is the same. The most blatant example is newly installed visa regime for citizens of Bosnia and Albania, and treatment of Turkey for access into the EU. One can see bigotry everywhere, including, now, and my native Bosnia.

"10 percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and the remaining 80 percent can be moved in either direction."
— Susan Sontag

Sad, but true. In another words, 80% is plainly STUPID, and can be lead by 10% into disaster and calamity as that has happened throughout human history.

Finally, I've seen it with my own eyes.

Posted by: Balkanac | December 5, 2009 10:30 AM



Home FAQ Contact Archive EP Store EP Alerts © 2010 ElectricPolitics	More on Minarets With the comments about minarets spooling up I figured I ought to try to defend my position in a podcast. So I asked Roger Hardy, BBC's Islamic Affairs analyst, for an interview but he politely declined. Roger did, nevertheless, recommend Jytte Klausen, of Brandeis. The name was familiar — it's pretty unusual — so I checked and yes, indeed, a month or so after I'd started the EP podcast in 2006 I'd asked Jytte for an interview, but hadn't then managed to make it happen. Well, this was a good time to try again, and this time I succeeded. Jytte was very kind to talk with me just on the day she was off to London to present her latest book to a parliamentary group. So following the podcast of the 18th, and after I have my vacation, this will be the podcast when we pick up again on January 8th; all those who disagree with my views on minarets will be heartened to know that they have some expert support. The whole story, however, gets complicated. Jytte's latest book, The Cartoons That Shook the World (Yale University Press, 2009), was published just a few weeks ago. It's about the crisis surrounding those Danish cartoons of Muhammad. But there's a twist. Just before the book was to be printed the President of Yale ordered the Press to remove reproductions of the cartoons and several other famous, historical illustrations of Muhammad. The press then added a statement of explanation on a front page with Jytte contributing below that a short statement of her own. The press offered to show Jytte a document upon which it had based its decision but only if she signed a confidentiality agreement, which she declined. She considers herself a victim of censorship and several civil liberties groups have taken up the case. Here we find common ground for complaint though we generalize from it in different ways. It's an interesting conversation which I learned from greatly, and I hope you find it thought-provoking even if you don't ultimately agree with me. Posted by George Kenney on December 3, 2009 8:41 AM « Cloud cuckoo land \| Main \| EP Hacked » Share this post: Comments Really looking forward to the podcast. In the meantime: http://www.wsws.org/tools/index.php?page=print&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsws.org%2Farticles%2F2009%2Fdec2009%2Fswit-d03.shtml Posted by: EJK \| December 3, 2009 9:30 AM I hope that we get to hear that Bud Hopkins interview this year. [Yes. Pls. see the posted schedule. g.] Posted by: douglas lain \| December 4, 2009 11:25 AM I've read your first article and you have an "interesting" angle of view, however it doesn't explain anything, at all. While "manufacturing consent" brains, and CGM (Corp. Gov. Media) named the results of referendum as a "surprise", however, it is anything but it! Who carefully following events and politics in Europe won't be surprised. For those from area of ex Yugoslavia will know what I am writing about, and what are EU (along with US) gov. capable of. And they - Europe - always has been xenophobic and bigots. For those who believe in virginity of Swiss nation and their "democracy" one very illustrative article. http://www.eurozine.com/articles/2009-10-16-ruth-en.html And after reading this: http://www.marxist.com/major-strike-shakes-switzerland-bellinzona-railway-workers.htm It is clear that governing class has hitted "soft spot" which is Muslim minority (majority is from ex Yugoslavia), of whom majority are not devoted or just lightly devoted to it's faith. So they blame them, not globalization and mismanagement of it's banking industry. Therefore they employed "groupthink" as a method for hemogenization of mass. [Well, I'm very pleased to see you raise the point that many of the Muslims in Switzerland are from the former Yugoslavia. What you fail, however, to add is that many of them are Albanians — my guess would be 1/4-1/3 of Swiss Muslims are Albanians — and that fact, of course, is critically important because Albanian gangs are most likely the largest heroin trafficking organization in Europe. Also trafficking in guns and human trafficking. Their activities have not gone unnoticed by Swiss authorities or, I daresay, by ordinary Swiss. The irony is that these Albanians probably never would have found an open door in Switzerland in the first place if they hadn't showed up with armfuls of cash, but that's neither here nor there. The Swiss have a parochial problem that they're dealing with sensibly on a case by case basis. I stand 100% behind my original contention that the Swiss are not a majority right-wing xenophobic group practicing the hateful persecution of minorities. Moreover, the problems the Swiss face are not limited to Switzerland. Other states, including the U.S., will increasingly have to deal with them. I see no contradiction whatsoever, either, between being opposed on the one hand to western attacks on Muslim countries, the profoundly criminal Israeli treatment of the Palestinians, and so on, and on the other a defense of ecumenical values within Western states. g.] Posted by: Balkanac \| December 4, 2009 11:43 PM Sir, I agree with you, and I am aware of the fact that majority of the Muslims in Switzerland are Kosovo's Albanians. But, majority of them are low abiding citizens. If you happened to take taxi at Zürich airport, you will see that majority of them are cab drivers and the like "professions". Still, I believe Kosovo's mafia (active in US as well) hasn't been created from the thin air, just like KLA. Population of 2 millions cannot have powerful underground unless there is some "support". I firmly believe that problem of ex Yugoslavia, which started on Kosovo are not creation of ordinary Kosovo's Albanians. Please take the look at this: http://www.mediatenor.com/charts.php What possibly outcome of the referendum could have been? and this: http://warincontext.org/2009/11/29/the-european-minaret-missile-threat/ Pay attention at the part with Tariq Ramadan's interview. I am not saying that Swiss are different form: French, or German, Austrian etc. Mindset is the same. The most blatant example is newly installed visa regime for citizens of Bosnia and Albania, and treatment of Turkey for access into the EU. One can see bigotry everywhere, including, now, and my native Bosnia. "10 percent of any population is cruel, no matter what, and 10 percent is merciful, no matter what, and the remaining 80 percent can be moved in either direction." — Susan Sontag Sad, but true. In another words, 80% is plainly STUPID, and can be lead by 10% into disaster and calamity as that has happened throughout human history. Finally, I've seen it with my own eyes. Posted by: Balkanac \| December 5, 2009 10:30 AM Leave a comment Name Email Address URL Remember personal info? Comments (You may use HTML tags for style)

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